Throughout my time doing this blog, Iâve come across people who find solace and inspiration in many things to get through the difficult days. One thing thatâs more common than others is music.
Whether itâs listening to your favourite songs or if youâre a musician yourself, for me thereâs nothing quite like music in the world. We listen to it when weâre sad, happy, it triggers fond memories and we use it for special occasions. Itâs also a huge coping mechanism in a creative way, via songwriting and performing.
I met Kyle David Smith through the âSappenin Podcastâ Patreon group. A place where Iâve met many incredible people via a mutual love of rock music which has become such a safe haven and Iâve made some fantastic friends through it. Kyle is most definitely one of them and the more I got to know him, the more I wanted to tell his story.
Kyle is an accomplished musician and songwriter through his projects, Icantdie and Pay The Man. He also does the rounds as a covers artist under his real name and has a lifelong love of music. The reasons behind a lot of music is his battles with mental health which has spoken volumes via his songwriting.
Kyle was the first person Iâve actually interviewed for this blog in person. Until then, I had only conducted them via Zoom calls so we met up in a pub in Cardiff. Over a few beers we talked shop as he shared his stories and his battles in an incredibly honest way.
How important is music to you, especially in difficult situations?
Music is basically an escape and always has been for me. When it comes to writing music, it gives you that creative bubble thatâs gives you a sense of purpose. It also shuts off things thatâs been bothering you in the outside world and that inspiration is what drives you to keep going.
In some cases it can be a bit of a healer but at the same time it can be very hard work as well. For example, I have so much music that Iâve composed that I donât have any lyrics for. On the flip side, I may have something I have lyrics for but donât have the music to connect it to.
Itâs all about putting in the work as well as having that drive and ambition to be creative. In terms of how important music to me, itâs an escape but a bit more than that. Itâs hard to explain but when people say they have a purpose in life or that itâs all they have, itâs a bit different for me. It is the most interesting part of my life.
This is something I know that pushes me further and gives me so much ambition. Iâm nearing my mid 30âs, but I still feel I have so much to achieve and we need that boost, that drive to keep at it. You donât want to work in a dead end job that you hate, you canât want that creative edge. Itâs something that gets you out there and makes you different.
If I didnât have the opportunity to do music, Iâd have to rethink my entire life. That is such a detrimental process for me as in comparison it would be the same as a rugby player breaking their leg. Theyâd be stopped from doing what they love, and if I was in that position with music where I couldnât write or perform, it would be a scary concept.
You would crumble and you can pick yourself up but I wouldnât wish that on anyone. That creative, passionate part of yourself is what gives your life enjoyment so I encourage anyone to follow it whether itâs writing, performing or any other creative aspect.
Songwriting has often been described as âtherapeuticâ. Would you agree with this and how would you relate to this?
I totally agree and to elaborate on that, if you wish to talk about something or express your feelings about something thatâs detrimental or that brings you joy via songwriting, itâs hugely therapeutic. Itâs like youâre pouring out your soul into something.
Iâve written about a lot of crappy things as well as happy times in my life. Itâs better than talking about in some ways. I do confide in people in a private setting when Iâm in a bad place or I do sometimes reach out via a more public platform like Facebook.
However, in the song âSituationshipâ where I wrote about something which happened to a friend of mine. The song is about him and a girl he liked where he was frustrated by certain aspects of the situation. He wasnât very happy when I told him about it, but at the end of the day he was relieved that it was in the format of a song. Itâs a way of telling a story whether itâs something serious, funny or even cynical.
Another example is the song Iâm about to realise on April 1st which is called âFour Dumb Linesâ. This is about pretty much every shitty thing thatâs happened to me during lockdown. I hated working from home as it was such a frustrating and miserable time for me. It drove me mad and I nearly lost my job as it got way too harsh for me.
A customer was crying because her problem wasnât getting sorted so I broke down because I couldnât help her. That was destroying for me as I really did want to help her but couldnât find a resolution to this problem. It got so bad afterwards that my girlfriend encouraged me to seek help but instead I started writing.
The lyrics that were created as a result of these feelings really due ring true for what I was trying to say. Depression, anxiety and other mental health conditions are jigsaw pieces that Iâm trying to fit into my writing and of course itâs therapeutic for me. I want to basically tell a story from my perspective with both good and bad things in there.
Thatâs your voice and youâre not just complaining about things. Youâre doing it in a way where people can enjoy and relate because itâs a creative outlet but also an art form as well. The most depressing points of my life can be told via a very happy sounding song that Iâve written. People can resonate with it and thatâs a massive thing for musicians.
One of the best songs where mental health is portrayed is by an artist named Julien Baker. The song is called âAppointmentsâ and itâs one of my favourite songs ever but itâs so sad. Itâs essentially about her going to see a doctor about her mental health and it spoke volumes to me. Iâve covered it a couple of times and the lyrics ring true where it sounds like sheâs crying through the vocals whilst actually singing.
When the emotion and the vocal points hit, it makes you want to cry and itâs not the first song thatâs made me feel that way. I canât listen to certain tunes without crying like âShe Loved Meâ by Randy Newman from the film âToy Story 2â. Itâs beautiful and it just makes me bawl. Thereâs many songs that makes you dance and be happy which is also therapeutic but that connection to music and lyrics is massive for sure.
When I was going through a tough time after my previous girlfriend cheated on me, I went through a really tough time but I wrote a lot of songs during that period. There was a song I wrote called âBanned For Lifeâ where she got banned from a club we both went to due to some reckless behaviour. I used as to relate it to the breakup.
It helped me because Iâm not happy but it gives me the serenity where I can put it to bed. Iâm proud of the songs Iâve written and Iâm happy to talk about the topics as theyâre my way of fighting against the negativity and shit times.
Apart from music, what do you find helpful in getting you through a difficult time?
Companionship is massive as talking to your loved ones or close friends is such a helpful tool to have in these difficult situations. Iâve come to a point where my friends have gotten married, had kids or have set up home with their partners but Iâm still very close with them.
My girlfriend sometimes tells me that I know everyone but through doing music, it comes with the territory as youâre always meeting new people and building foundations. Itâs a great thing and it has that point where you can mingle which then turns into a solid friendship.
During these tough times, these friends can help you and you can help them through their difficult periods as well. Those worries I have goes away once Iâve confided in my friends and I try to do that as much as possible. Even if theyâre going through shitty times, itâs therapeutic for me to help them.
It makes me feel better knowing Iâve helped someone. I care about that person and donât want to see them go through a tough period. We donât want to feel depressed or anxious so if we can both get to a point where talking and supporting each other will help us towards a more positive mindset, Iâm all for it and would be there in a heartbeat.
Another massive thing for me is exercise. Even if itâs just walking a mile day, it helps me. Iâm very stubborn about it but at one point I just to run half marathons. Iâm trying to get back to that stage as a depressive state caused me to stop running for a while.
Iâm getting myself back out there and it gives me a massive boost. I wonât slim down straight away but itâs a process as well as a very therapeutic tool when Iâm not feeling that good.
Gaming is something I go to and sometimes stay away from. Itâs a universal and sometimes toxic in a way. I donât mind the community aspect but it can go bad where insults and bullying can occur.
Gaming can be an escape where you can be someone else or enter a fantasy land. You can also concentrate on things like finish a mission or compete against your friends online but I donât see it as something that can be a bit detrimental for mental health. I love gaming but as many good points it has, there are some bad ones too.
Work is another big coping mechanism. It helps as much as it sucks. In the job I do, Iâm very constructive where Iâm on the go and Iâm very busy. It passes the time and it keeps you energised. Donât get me wrong it is exhausting but thatâs what helps you get through it and you can relax knowing youâve done the best you can.
Ricky Gervais puts it best in show âAfter Lifeâ on Netflix. His character goes to work because thatâs what is getting him out of bed in the morning as itâs giving him purpose. That and taking the dog for a walk is whatâs helping through the darkest times. Youâve got to have a purpose in life to keep you going which is such an important factor.
What benefits have you found from being creative and what advice would you give to someone whoâs struggling to âfollow their passionâ?
I see any piece of music Iâve released, whether itâs an album or single as a badge of honour. Itâs something Iâve created and who doesnât feel great when they see something theyâve created and worked from the ground up on a public platform?
Being creative like that makes you want to work harder when you see the results. Money of course is a massive factor and I never thought I could do an album but when I did the Pay The Man record, it was all me. I funded it myself, did all the instruments, bounced them all off and then sent them to a producer which he mixed himself.
I never thought it was possible but I wanted to believe that I could do this myself with no experience of putting an album together. The producer was so understanding and supportive with this project. As soon as the drums were recorded, I know how the rest of the pieces fitted together in this puzzle.
Once it was finished, it was such an amazing feeling to know that it was finished but it was something I made. I promoted the hell out of it but I knew it wasnât going to be an overnight sensation but the effort and drive was always going to be there. I wanted to create something which I could sell at gigs. Some people say CDâs âarenât cool anymoreâ but to know I have a physical copy of my music that someone can buy is just incredible.
Being creative on that front is such a massive benefit and it shows that anything can be possible if you work hard at it. One of my favourite quotes from the sitcom âFlight of the Conchordsâ is âHe says he doesn’t mind but I can tell he kinda minds, but I’m gonna do it anyway.â Just go for it!
If thereâs any advice I can give to someone else whoâs trying to follow their passion is to be stubborn with yourself. Itâs the best thing I can say although in relation to music, many a promoter will hate you for it, trust me I know! Thatâs what I would advise anyone to do. Be annoying in the best way possible.
Once youâve created what you want to create and you have that drive to show people, you just have to stick at it and keep promoting the hell out of it. When promoters say âI see people like you all the time.â Yeah thatâs well and true but Iâm different if you take the time to listen to what Iâve made.
One of the promoters that Iâm friends with that I also annoy the hell out of, every time he puts a show on with no support acts, I send him a meme. Itâs one of Salt Bae where heâs dropping the salt but I put either Pay The Man or Icantdie under the hand so itâs a different way of pushing it.
Even if you play the worst shows in the world in front of practically nobody, you still do it. I drove to London from Bridgewater to play as midday show to absolutely nobody but the bands who were on after me. Someone asked me to play and said yes because I wanted to. He wanted someone with determination and that guy was me.
You do what youâre asked to do and stick at it. Even when things seem shit, be stubborn, stick at it and youâll see some benefits come through for sure.
Why do you think there is such a stigma associated with mental health, specifically with men?
Right, itâs a two parter as thereâs a type of man where they think the idea of mental health is bullshit and it doesnât effect them. That is stemmed from us being stuck in the ways of decades past where we had that mentality etched into us from our elders.
I can understand that because why would you think that you have an problem which deters you from functioning. This mentality pretty much makes us think that we are invincible and thatâs not true at all. You donât want something to stop you in your tracks or you donât want an excuse to take pills that will help you in these times.
Thatâs not how we were brought, to think that itâs ok to admit weâre struggling. For me and Iâm sure for many others, the idea of an âalpha maleâ is complete and utter bullshit. People still want to think they can push through or suppress their true feelings which again I can understand.
You donât want to admit youâre ill, especially if thereâs things that you want to do. They donât want to admit that theyâre unwell. It canât be like Bruce Willis in the film âUnbreakableâ where he says that heâs never had a sick day, it just doesnât work like that.
Unfortunately there are some people who abuse the system who take weeks off and I think thatâs a factor too as some people will suppress their feelings of difficulty and pain because they donât want people thinking theyâre putting it on. Iâm not saying everyone does but there are people who do and thatâs a factor for sure.
Going back to the masculinity mentality, I was watching episodes of âOnly Fools and Horsesâ and they were saying things like âwhat do doctors know?â Now this was during the 80âs and 90âs but thereâs still men with that mentality today. That is a very negative stigma on men as we donât want to see that attitude towards people who do some amazing work.
Thereâs two types, thereâs the ones who think it will never effect them or the ones who wonât believe the help thatâs offered to them. Iâm not saying everyone or nobody has mental health issues but you donât have to suffer in silence anymore as there is no shame in admitting you need help.
Youâve got to accept the fact that this can happen. It doesnât make you any less of a person or a man. You can still be a functioning person it just means that youâre human at the end of the day. Some people are not handling it well but there are many avenues to explore to help you.
Ignorance is bliss but thatâs just how it is with the stigma and the more we push this message that this age old mentality is not the answer, the more we can help those effected by it.
What would you say to someone who is struggling and doesnât know it talking about it is the right thing to do?
Iâve been thinking about this question for a while since you sent it to me and honestly I donât feel Iâm the best person to answer it. The reason being is that I feel Iâm a statistic of that question due to me not wanting to talk about it.
This year especially, Iâve had my fair share of battles with my mental health. It got to the point where I was in floods of tears, was very angry and even considered doing something drastic which would have caused a lot of pain to those who care for me.
Itâs been a very rough year and when it comes to talking to someone, the process is annoying and I donât like it. Thatâs why music is important to me as thatâs my coping mechanism and also my way of releasing my feelings. Iâve never been on medication or been referred to anything in terms of professional help such counselling and thereâs important factors behind that.
I know it makes me look like a hypocrite because Iâve encouraged people to seek help but thatâs due to me knowing that my means of coping is my doing me good. Not for one second would I say seeking professional help is bad thing as I would like to eventually find myself speaking to someone and taking that hand of help, but my imposter syndrome is a massive factor stopping me from doing that.
Honestly, I donât feel somewhat eligible for that treatment. Because Iâm a happy go lucky sort of guy who plays gigs and has a big social environment, it would feel like Iâm abusing the system for seeking help. I did go to the doctors once and the process felt a bit condescending to be perfectly honest with you.
Now this isnât a knock on any doctors as I know they have a code or process to follow and I fully respect that. I mean, when I got there they gave me a chart and I had to say from 1 to 5 of how depressed or even suicidal I was feeling.
You canât put a number on it and the point I realised I had mental health issues was last November when I lost my job. Without a job, I couldnât pay the bills and I also couldnât do any music. That process absolutely terrified me. If I got another job, I was concerned of getting unsociable hours which meant I couldnât do any gigs. The whole process was worrying me terribly.
This is where it intertwines as I need my job, as boring as it is, it pays the bills as well as funding my music. People say, once you have a child, thereâs no time or money for music. The same is said when buy a house or get married. Iâve seen so many people break those barriers and it gets to a point where I hated myself. I drank heavily, ate shit food so I looked at myself and hated what I saw.
My girlfriend kept telling me to get help but I felt that I couldnât due to the reasons I gave before. I know this isnât a positive aspect about mental health but people do think this way. I would say to anybody, if you are on the verge of doing something desperate, please seek help. Whether itâs a doctor, counsellor, family member, friend etc, please do it.
I know it makes me a hypocrite and I get that. A lot of people like me feel like they donât feel theyâre eligible or they deserve it. That is exactly what imposter syndrome is and that effects me personally, with music and at work. If I get a promotion, or Iâm asked to play a certain gig, I donât feel I deserve it and thatâs been through my entire life.
When it comes to work, someone could tell me how to do something and my brain tells me Iâm going to fuck it up. With gigging, when I played in support of Funeral For A Friend in front of a sold out crowd, I felt I wasnât good enough then either.
I just feel Iâd waste a doctors time but thatâs just me. If you even consider the option seeking help, please go for it. Hopefully one day I can overcome this and love myself a lot more than I do now but sadly Iâve got a long way to go.
Thankfully due to music, I can vent through that and itâs my way of coping. I will get there one day and Iâm 100% positive I will, just itâs a bit of a process. At the end of the day, if you want someone to get better, check in on them. Iâm lucky to have people to do that for me and itâs essential that we do that for people we care about.
It doesnât go as far as just telling someone to go to a doctor, you could say that and one day itâll go in ear then out the other. Even to the point that the person could do something desperate which results in you wondering what you could have done better.
Iâll get there one day but we need to tell people they matter. Itâs a fantastic lift in these tough times but my imposter syndrome takes over. People are very stubborn but if we can get over that, itâll be so much better overall. The same that if the system was a bit better.
We canât just get off the sofa and get help, itâs not as easy as that. Thereâs so much more to it and the more we realise this, the better it will be going forward.
I expected an open and honest chat with Kyle but this went beyond what I could have imagined. Prior to our chat, he briefly mentioned to me that heâs had his struggles but it wasnât until we did this for the blog that I knew his full story.
One of the things I wanted to do with this blog on a personal level is that Iâm following a passion by writing, so I can resonate to a small extent with Kyle. His passion is music and I havenât got a musical bone in my body aside from bad, drunken karaoke. I do love listening to music, and many of the conversations Iâve had with Kyle is about our fave bands, songs and albums.
Heâs worked incredibly hard on every single one his projects stemming from his days in Caesars Rome all the way to his current projects. I wish him nothing but the very best going forward with those and even more I wish him good health as heâs a cracking bloke who Iâm glad to have gotten to know these past 18 months.
His honesty about mental health is a different spin, something Iâve found through many a person Iâve spoken to for this blog. Not everyone goes through the same journey and âimposter syndromeâ is something Iâm learning more and more about, even to the extent where Iâve noticed it with some of my own traits in behaviour.
The fact he is this open shows his stubbornness and eagerness to not let the negativity win. If heâs as ambitious and driven with music, heâs going to kick ass when it comes to any mental health issues.
Once again, thank you to Kyle for speaking to me. Under his Pay The Man project he has a new single out on Friday 1st April which is called âFour Dumb Linesâ. Iâve heard it and itâs a banger! Heâs also made a video which will be released the same day.
Iâll be posting his social media details so keep an eye out for any gigs nearby. Also Iâll post the names of his projects so you can check them out on Spotify, Apple Music or any other main streaming platforms.
Many thanks for reading. Means a lot to me and the people I speak to as their stories are proof that weâre never alone in fighting this battle for mental health. Take care, stay safe and until next time, donât think of this as a goodbye but more of a see you later!
Kyleâs Social Media Platforms
Facebook – Pay The Man, Icantdie, KD Smith – Cover Artist
Twitter – @KylePayTheMan, @_icantdie, @caesarsrome





